Building A Gender-Inclusive and Balanced Workplace

Welcome to Hire Potential with Indeed, a series of fireside chats with experts in diversity and inclusion, employer branding, recruiting, HR and more.

• Using data to inform decisions
• Becoming familiar with the role both conscious and unconscious bias plays in hiring
• Avoiding gendered language in job advertisements 
• Targeting specific job boards to reach a more diverse audience 
• Reviewing the interview process to ensure it’s fair and equitable for all candidates
• Reviewing candidate shortlists at each stage of the hiring process to ensure gender equality 

Beyond these practical tips, Kasey talks about what psychological safety really means in a workplace. Is your team comfortable sharing their concerns? If not, why? And how can you solve for it? 

Kasey suggests that while everyone is responsible for creating a culture of safety, it is incumbent on leadership to take a top down approach and model behaviour, not simply pay lip service to values that should be meaningfully held and exhibited. 

Listen Now

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Prologue

Erin: Welcome to Hire Potential with Indeed. A welcoming workplace is built from the ground up with attention to diversity, inclusion, accessibility and openness. But the way many leaders and companies approach this is full of grey areas, uncertainty and quite often, fear. Hire Potential with Indeed is here to demystify the process through the most powerful channel possible, conversations, groundbreaking ones, too. 

I'm your host, Erin Waddell, strategic insights consultant and D&I evangelist in Australia for Indeed. I've worked in the recruitment industry in Australia for the last seven years and have been in Australia for 10 years. 

In this podcast series will tackle the issues we face in the modern workplace, from diversity and inclusion to remote working, accessibility, fair hiring practices and more. This podcast is an initiative of indeed.com, the world's number one job site with over 250 million unique visitors every month from over 60 different countries. 

Introduction

Erin: Before we dive in, I wish to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we are meeting today, and to any Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islanders who may be listening. I pay my respects to their elders, past, present and emerging. 

In this week's episode, we'll be discussing the importance of building a gender-inclusive and balanced workplace. Creating a gender-inclusive workplace is a non negotiable when it comes to ensuring your organisation is diverse and inclusive to all. But with the average woman in Australia having to work an extra 56 days a year to earn the same pay as men doing the same work and being significantly less likely to hold leadership positions within their organisations, there is still a lot more that needs to be done to achieve gender equality for women of all backgrounds in the workplace. 

In this week's episode, which falls close to International Women's Day, we are joined by Kasey Zun, Global Head of inclusion, diversity and belonging at Xero, to learn more about what changes companies can make to establish a more gender-inclusive workplace to truly achieve gender equality and accelerate the advancement of women into leadership positions. 

Welcome, Kasey.

Kasey: Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Erin: Our absolute pleasure.

Could you please share a little bit about your role at Xero with us?

Kasey: Yeah, absolutely. We'll look, as you mentioned, I'm the Global Head of inclusion, diversity and belonging at Xero. And essentially, my role is really varied, but it is to support our leaders and our people or as we call them, our Xeros to build the most diverse and inclusive working environment. And really a place where people can come to work, they feel like they truly belong. And so, as I said, the role is really varied. And it involves everything from partnering with our amazing Employee Resource Groups or ERGs, as we know them, to promote a range of issues and initiatives related to a whole spectrum of work across the D&I portfolio. I work really closely with our leaders to drive home our D&I strategy across their teams. I partner with our talent experience team in relation to our D&I hiring strategies. And then there's old, weird and wonderful things that pop up in between. So, it's an amazing role, I love it. And I'm really also lucky to work at an organisation like Xero that's, I think, really deeply committed to driving change in this area.

Erin: I think that makes a huge difference. If you're already in an environment where you know you can flourish, and you know that your suggestions are not going to be completely out of left field or you're going to have to face a huge uphill battle just to get started, I think that makes a huge difference, too. I love that you have ERGs, we can talk about those in a little bit too.

Creating a culture of support and inclusivity lays the groundwork for diverse and underrepresented voices to be heard. And I think this is even more important for their work to be valued at the same level as everyone else. Where does a company start in creating an environment where everyone is welcome and feel safe to be their authentic selves at work?

Kasey: Look, I think firstly, no matter what size your organisation may be, or really like where you are in the process around diversity and inclusion, I think it's always really important to think you have to start somewhere, even if you're sitting there and let's say you're at an organisation, you're quite advanced, and you're like, “Oh, should we do this?” Think about it. And remember, “If we don't, what could be the outcome?” But for me, I would suggest looking at your organisation's purpose and values. Really, this is the heartbeat and the core of the organisation. 

So, it's really incredibly important that inclusivity is felt and it's seen at that core so that your employees can really link back to that and be their authentic selves. 

And I think with Xero, Xero has always been a really values driven business, our values are really what underpins, and they build our special culture, it's part of our DNA. And when I think about our values, especially one of my favourite values, our hashtag human values, it's about remembering we're all human, unique, different and amazing, I really see that direct alignment to inclusivity. And so, with that, it's linking directly to our diversity and inclusion strategy. And I think that's really important, because if it's not linked to the strategy, we're not going to see many gains. 

And then if I think about, “Well, how could you start this journey?” I would start with asking the question, and perhaps ask it to a range of people across your business, “Would there be anything that would make someone's sense of themselves?” If you ask them the question, “How did you spend your weekend? Or what do you like doing outside of work?” And look at what people are telling you and also look at how they're telling you as well. If there seems to be a reason why someone perhaps would hold back or doesn't seem entirely comfortable, look at what you could do around them to make the environment more comfortable and inclusive for them.

And that also comes back to the way that you interact and share your experiences as well, if we're keeping everything inside, we don't necessarily give permission for others to feel that they can share either. And I think as well, it's really important to articulate your purpose and your aim around inclusivity, and also, your approach to inclusion, diversity and belonging and sing it from the rooftops, lead loudly in the area. But also make sure you create a psychologically safe place where if things don't feel okay, people can raise issues. If we don't hear leaders talking about diversity and inclusion, no matter where you sit in the organisation, you'll be reflecting and thinking, “Is this really important?” So, just building it into the everyday conversation? That's an incredible start. And you can go from there.

Erin: That's fantastic.

What does psychological safety mean in the workplace 

I was just going to pause and see if you didn't mind describing or explaining briefly what psychological safety means.

Kasey: Yeah, look, and I’ll come at this from a personal point of view. But for me, it's really about if something does not feel okay, can I raise that? Am I going to feel that I'll be judged or that I'm going to face consequences in a negative way for doing so. And really, for me, psychological safety is knowing that, that's not going to happen, that there's someone within my organisation that I can turn to and say, “I've seen this, I'm feeling this, and it doesn't sit well with me. Or I feel that we need to address this.” And knowing that they listen, and that they're actually going to take it on board if we don't have the ability to do that. And for me, that's not a very safe environment. I'm going to be holding back, I'm going to feel that if I'm seeing perhaps behaviours that are not inclusive, or they don't align with organisational purpose and value, it's going to make it really difficult to impact change, if you've got people holding back and feeling that they can't raise issues.

Erin: Especially if they feel like there could be repercussions to them or their job, or I know that there are people I've spoken to in the past that feel like as soon as they raise it, they feel like they're being gaslighted into admitting that it never existed. And that perpetuates the problem far more than it actually solves it.

Kasey: That's right. And look, and I think speaking up goes into a few different areas. Sometimes if you're in a situation, and it's with a group of people, you're never going to feel comfortable to speak up in that moment, because you've got all eyes on you. But speaking up can also mean grabbing somebody after that particular meeting or whatever and saying, “Hey, we want to have it exactly, I want to have a quiet word.” It's when you can't have the quiet word when I think that's when you really need to look at really what could we doing to really facilitate the quiet word a little bit more.

Erin: Mm hmm.

Tips for implementing effective recruitment practices that build a gender-inclusive and balanced workplace

This is a good segue into the next question I have for you, which is when you are looking for people to come work for your company. And maybe it's about making sure that they feel psychologically safe from the moment they even click into your application or the first person they speak to in the interview. And I was going to ask, if you could talk or give any advice on how to implement effective recruitment practices that can help build a gender-inclusive and balanced workplace?

Kasey: Yeah, sure. Well, let's touch on a few steps I would encourage. And look, firstly, let's look at what your data is telling you. If you're not tracking the lifecycle of the recruitment process in terms of where you're advertising, how you're advertising, if you have any recruitment partnerships or through to who makes it through to the shortlist, this whole process, what about interview, if you have skills assessment who is progressing through to that stage, I would really encourage you, if you're not already doing this, start doing so, because you'll be able to hone in and understand where potential issues may arise and also put steps in place to address them really early on.

Look, I think we have access to really amazing data around gender, which is really important. So, we can absolutely utilise this. Organisations are moving into the space where they're exploring other spectrums of identity, both across gender and in other areas. And that can be a little bit more difficult to track because it's newer, and we don't have that data set. But we have gender, so get tracking is my first piece of advice and I also think with that, use that data to inform decisions. I think it's really important for people who are, well, anyone who's involved in the hiring process to be really familiar with the role that bias can play. And that's both unconscious and conscious bias, and understand what steps can be taken to minimise bias. 

And I think the really big one with this is, it happens, it is proven time and time again that bias can impact everyone, it happens to everyone, it's normal. But the difference is what you can do to recognise it, and put steps in place to address it as well.

And I think we've seen some really great tools that have come out around the use of language in applications, especially around gendered language. And it's a really big and far-reaching area. But it's something that can assist in making your recruitment practices more inclusive. So, perhaps break it down into areas, as I mentioned, your ads and where you advertised, is there room for improvement in there? Are there any targeted job boards you could be working with? If you need to make sure that you're getting a more gender diverse shortlist together, are you advertising in the right places? And also, what about your interview process, how can you make sure that everyone has a fair and equitable experience?

And perhaps for some organisation, it's asking each candidate the same five questions that they need to answer so that you can compare answers directly to help make a decision. And, look, this obviously, I think with people's CVs you also want to explore what is on that as well, but making some questions all the same is part of that process.

And then looking at your shortlist, is it gender-balanced? Is it a diverse list of candidates? And if it's not, what are the reasons for that and unpack that and look at what ways you can address that issue. And I think if you're doing things step by step and continue to make adjustments, you're not going to be able to do everything at once, but start with a few things and go from there. And really that will be the path to promoting better fairness and equity. I think both across diversity and inclusion more broadly, but specifically with gender equality as well.

Erin: I think those are fantastic tips.

Gendered Language to Avoid Using in the Workplace

I would just love to go back to gendered language for a moment. Because I think that can go hand in hand with bias in terms of we don't actually know that we're using gendered language sometimes, in our ads, in our advertising, in our communications, in the way that we describe our workplaces. Do you have any examples you can think of off the top of your head of what some gendered language can sound like that might put some people off? Like, for example, I know that women are less likely to apply to roles that are looking for someone described as aggressive.

Kasey: Power, power.

Erin: Powerful, relentless.

Kasey: Yeah, there's really strong words that have in time, I think, have been associated with males, I think, absolutely. I remember seeing the word gravitas as well, I’m like, “I would never describe myself as having gravitas.” But, I mean, maybe somebody else would. But I think it's thinking about--, test the room. If you're using a word and people they're looking at you, going, “Oh, this doesn't sound right” there's an issue with that. I would also, look, I think there's a really fine line as well with you really wanting to showcase your culture. But think about if you're putting in there, where the only thing that you're showcasing is that you have a free bar and drinks available and things like that, you're potentially excluding perhaps a group of people that are not comfortable with drinking, and that's totally fine, or people that have caring responsibilities and they can't spend too much time. They like to spend a little, but not too much being super social with the workplace, that's not going to impact their job.

So, I think it's okay to have a little bit of this, but just making sure that we've got the balance, I think that's really important. And, look, I really wish I could remember off the top of my head, but there's some really useful and free online gender tools around inclusive language. 

Unfortunately, I do not remember any of them off the top of my head, but they're free, you can Google them. And it's something you can run your job ads through. There's some really good language. And there's some awesome programs with AI technology that can also assist as well that organisations could also look at.

Erin: And just briefly, I do want to mention that it goes both ways, there are certain words and terms that would put males off from applying to roles too. So, I didn't want to exclude anyone else. But I just thought it was an interesting pickup because I actually, when I work with some of our clients and partners, I have to have a conversation with them around that. I think it's a really interesting topic. And we don't even realise how it impacts us until someone brings it up.

But let's talk about the wider spectrum of gender as well, which is something I think is really amazing that we are able to even have a conversation about now. So, for women, or employees identifying as non binary, trans or any other marginalised group to be successful in the workplace, a supportive culture of inclusion and equity is necessary. How would you recommend that companies ensure their mission includes all women, especially trans and non binary employees?

Kasey: Yeah, look, I think it goes back to what we spoke about earlier around purpose and values. If you have inclusivity built into an organisation's mission and strategy, and we have employees and our leaders leading loudly in this space about gender equality and inclusion, but specifically the intersection of gender, that's going to lay the foundations for more specific work in this place, and to ensure that the workplace experience is inclusive of all women, and gender diverse individuals. 

And, look, I think it can sometimes be a space that people are a little afraid to get into, because they're afraid that they will get it wrong. I get that. But I think if that's all that’s stopping you, look into how you can best educate yourself. There's some amazing organisations out there, Pride and Diversity is one that I will touch on who have so many incredible resources that are designed specifically to support all different types of organisations around how they can make the workplace experience more inclusive for the range of genders. And so, I think, educate yourself. 

And also, it's also looking at the simple things that can be done. It's sometimes through language and communications. And then other times, it is demonstrated in specific actions or initiatives. And, look. I look at Xero, for example, and a lot of organisations like Xero have gender targets in place. And for us, it's so we can ensure that we've got a more gender-balanced organisation. And when these targets were drafted, it was very deliberate that these targets reference both women and non-binary individuals, so that we recognise the diverse spectrum of gender and we're inclusive in our approach. For us, that was really important. And it's these little things, instead of having specific targets that were focused on men and women, we just went that one step further, because for us, that was about being the most inclusive organisation we possibly could be.

How to educate employees about gender-inclusive language

Erin: You mentioned language, and I think that that's a really important factor. So, in your opinion, what are the best methods to educate employees about gender-inclusive language?

Kasey: Look, you need to be able to create multiple opportunities for learning in this space, and to be able to ask questions and have those conversations, making sure you're creating a space and environment that also allows people where if, unfortunately, if they miss step, they make a mistake around this area, they can recognise, they can correct it, and they can move forward. I found and I referenced this in the past question, that people really, they often want to learn and do the right thing, but they're so scared to get it wrong. So, instead, they take the path of just not doing anything at all.

And, look, I think there's some really simple adjustments that can be really easily introduced around gender-inclusive language. I would suggest reviewing the language that's used across your organisation, whether that be in your policies, your company-wide communications, we spoke about job ads earlier, or even on company communication tools, such as Slack or your intranet, is it gendered in any way? Are there certain terms that may be a little bit old fashioned or linked with a particular gender when they in fact, should just be genderless? I mean, even I do this myself, and I really have to stop myself referring to a group, no matter what gender they are, “Hey, guys” or you've got a group of women, “Hey, ladies” well, you could also have individuals sitting within that group that happened to be non-binary, and that term doesn't fit with both. I mean, it's hard because it's built into the way we do things, but it's just trying to educate yourself and taking small steps.

Erin: What would you recommend people use instead of, “Hey guys and hey ladies?”

Kasey: I'd be like, “Hey team” that's my fav, that's the one I go to now.

Erin: Folks, is another one, “Hey, folks.”

Kasey: Well, that's it. There's a few. And, look, it just takes a few adjustments but you get into the habit and you correct yourself and, look, I would still slip up and do it occasionally. And it's just about going back and going, “Yep, let's change this around.” And, look, I also think there's a really important piece around how we can best support the wider spectrum of gender identities as well. And I think one way that I've been thrilled to see so many organisations are leaning into, and it was definitely part of my onboarding experience and also beyond Xero, was the use of pronouns as well, because it's a really important step in terms of gender-inclusive language and making sure that people feel that they can be themselves.

So, at Xero via our HR or our PX systems, and across our email and Slack channels, we now have the option to list our gender pronouns so that colleagues can understand and use the correct pronouns that we have selected that are unique to us. And I think as a person that's relatively new to Xero, I found this so useful. And it sent a really clear message to me early on, because this happened as part of my onboarding, that Xero cares about this issue and they're committed to undertaking work to be more inclusive in this space. And, look, for a smaller organisation, who may not have the infrastructure in place to implement this really easily, it's as simple as actually just making a change on an email signature, there's more in depth ways to do it, and there's also the simple ways, whatever way you have access to will be the right way.

Erin: It's also a great way to show that you are an ally to that community in a very, very simple, subtle way. It speaks volumes when you have pronouns in email signatures, or even internally. At Indeed, we have the option to do that too. I, of course, put mine on my email signature, it's in my LinkedIn profile, as well. I think it's just a nice way to, A, make sure people understand your pronouns. But, B, say, “I'm actually thinking about this issue, because I know that there are people who are not going to have the same pronouns as me.”

Kasey: Yeah, absolutely. And that is such a good point. The step of ally-ship along all of this is a really impactful one. And there's always something that we can do.

Erin: Fully agree with that.

Facilities that workplaces must have in order to be inclusive

When it comes to workplace facilities, what kind of those facilities should be mandatory in ensuring an inclusive environment?

Kasey: Yeah, look, this one, it's always a really interesting discussion. And I would say, look, I think the best place to start is reflect on what support your employees may require so that they feel that they can work effectively, that they're supported and also determine what experiences may not be represented or may walk through the door with your next hire. It may be that the current group of employees, the workplace facilities are perfectly fine for them. But is it because if we're not looking at this properly, we may be excluding people from the hiring process, or people may be deciding not to go through with accepting that offer. So, I think, often, it's going to require us to move outside our own personal experiences, and really try to understand that range of perspectives.

So, look, I think I would recommend to employers to ask some questions to their employee group and understand where there's room for improvement. So, look, what space have you got dedicated to employees who may need to take time in the day to be able to pray? Is there a space for new mothers to be able to pump and store breast milk, and also to be able to do this with the level of privacy as well? And, look, if it comes down to wellbeing? Is there a space where somebody is able to take 10 minutes away from their desk for meditation? Is there an area where we can do this? If we look at bathrooms and inter trip facilities, are they gender-inclusive or are they separate? And also, is your office accessible and suitable for employees who may require adjustments?

And, look, I think considering a range of perspectives, I definitely haven't listed them all, but these are a start to be able to address how we can make a workplace more inclusive, and have that sense of belonging. And I think it's also important to note that just because somebody doesn't specifically ask if you have a prayer room available, doesn't mean that it's not required, it could actually mean that they don't feel comfortable raising their request.

Erin: It could be something that could be the difference of them accepting a job offer or not accepting a job offer. Now, and I am conscious, though, and I also am conscious that there are small businesses out there who do not own the office or the space that they have.

Kasey: Even big businesses.

Erin: Even big businesses. I've seen some really creative things coming up on LinkedIn about how these small businesses are making these temporary even spaces for some of their employees without the employees asking, I think that is a key point. If you're a small business, that could set you apart even from some of the big businesses in terms of the people comfortable coming to work for you. I think that that could be your secret weapon, is an inclusive workspace. Even if you don't own it, you set something up.

Kasey: Yeah, make arrangements. And I think it is important, we really do need to recognise that organisations, like we said, or small businesses that there are certain restraints. And, look, I hate to say it can come down to budget sometimes, but it's even the way that the particular landlord or building management structure their leases. So, I think it's about what barriers are put there, how you can creatively address them like you said. And I mean, even if we're talking about like, the meditation piece, if you don't have space for that relaxation part or area within your office, make it a rule that people will take 10 minutes to go and sit in a park, there are ways to do it, and we just need to be really creative about the fact.

And it's also communicating why the barriers exist. And sometimes you have influence. If you're part of it, perhaps a building that the trip facilities are not as inclusive as they can be, you can have conversations with your landlord, there's nothing stopping you to say, “Well, what can we change about this?” And, look, I love, we've got our workplace experience team at Xero and it was really important as part of any office moves or refurbishment. They take the time to speak to teams like myself in diversity and inclusion, but also our employees and our employee resource groups to understand what's important, and having this in their toolkit, it's going to help us be a more inclusive workplace.

Erin: If there's a will, there's a way. And you would be surprised at what you can do with little to no budget, if you really put your mind to it. And I think that that's such a great point, when it comes to the company stakeholders, and maybe the, I like to talk a lot about ERGs, I think that they're such a valuable resource, employee resource groups, and they can do so much from the ground up. It's so important to have those stakeholders on board, though, especially at the senior level.

Who is responsible for building a gender-inclusive workplace? 

And when it comes to a gender-inclusive workplace, who should be the company's key stakeholders that should take responsibility for that? And for the subject matter experts, what roles should they consider prioritising to ensure that they are also ensuring a gender-inclusive workplace?

Kasey: Yeah, look, I think with this, I think we all have a responsibility to treat people with fairness and respect and be the allies, call out behaviours that go against inclusivity. But if we're looking at an organisational structure, it's really important that we start with the leadership group. When we've got our leaders invested in improving gender equality and also diversity more broadly, we're going to see results, we're going to see a flow on effect across an organisation. And ultimately, we would hope with a client or customer base as well. And it makes me proud to work for organisations that have put this at the forefront and like Xero with our leadership group in our people, leaders across the business, they've made it their focus to not only improve gender equality, and again, diversity more broadly. But it's about taking active steps to also understand the root cause of issues and put in those interventions.

So, I think it's all well and good for the leaders to say, “Yeah, we support this” but actually diving in and going, “Right, well, how can we fix it?’ That's going to have a more sustainable impact, and it's not going to be a band aid solution.

And then I guess, in terms of well, what prioritising what roles, look, it’s a really difficult one, I think, at times because sometimes an organisation may not be in the position to introduce roles or make radical changes to the operating structure. But as we said, there's always steps that can be taken. I think a D&I role is fantastic. If you're not in a position to have somebody full-time dedicated to that, start with building an advisory group and carving out a percentage of people's time that they can dedicate, passionate people that also have influence within the organisation. I think ERGs are also really important because we need leadership and this coming from the top, but we also need the voice of our employees. And I think that's where ERGs play an amazing role as well. So, you really just, you want everyone but you also want space for people to be able to learn as well.

Erin: Yep, I agree with everything you just said.

When it comes to women in leadership positions, I know that that's something that you're passionate about. LeanIn.org and McKinsey and Company did an annual study, they do an annual study of women at work and they found that 20% of the time, a woman is often the only female in meetings or other situations at their office place or their workplace. This increases to nearly 40% for women in senior level positions. What can companies do to help advance more women into leadership positions so that these percentages aren't so high in the future?

Kasey: Yep, start early, invest really early on. And like I mentioned about shouting your diversity and inclusion principles and your purpose from the rooftop, if you're doing that, from the day that people get in the door, they know that there's an opportunity. I think there's a lot that can be put on women's shoulders in senior roles as well, if they are the only one, they're carrying a lot more responsibility. And all of a sudden, they're being asked to, “We'd love you to be in this interview, you can't be what you can't see, and so forth.” And I think all of those amazing women, they will continue to do that work.

But it's also about more junior women within an organisation and giving them the opportunity. If you're a leader, can you bring somebody into the room with you? They can simply sit and observe and you can engage them in conversation, can they shadow you on a particular project? How can you sponsor them? I think mentoring is incredibly important, there is always going to be a role for anybody to get something out of mentoring. But I think to bring more women into leadership, we need to look at senior leaders being sponsors and advocating and building relationships with all women across an organisation.

And, look, there's different programs that are in place which focus specifically on leadership, development and advancement within the organisations. I know sometimes these can be controversial because we don't want to be seen to be fixing women. But if we think that this is going to provide opportunities to connect them and network and build, I am fully supportive. And so, I think it's about looking at your organisation and understanding what you're not doing and if you bring something in, is it going to change. And then it's just getting behind all the amazing women you have, and just bringing them with you.

Erin: Representation matters. And I think if you have a senior leadership team of all men, or people that identify as male, then you're gonna probably struggle to get women to feel like they can advance in a company where they don't see another woman or anyone on that spectrum in those positions. And so, I think that can really work against you if you're not advancing women into leadership positions, for sure.

Kasey: Yeah. And, look, I think that's right, looking at who has a seat at that table. I love it was definitely a big part of me joining Xero. When I look, we've had 63% of our executive, our leadership team are female, that's incredible. It is amazing. But I will say that the whole leadership team knows that they need to keep working to make sure that there's incredible succession plans in place, and that we're developing talent, but it's something that we're really proud of. But we know that we can't rest on our laurels, the work will continue.

Erin: Well, we are coming up to International Women's Day. And I'm curious if you wouldn't mind sharing how Xero celebrates that day.

Kasey: Well, I'm excited because this is actually going to be my first International Women's Day at Xero. However, over the years as a global organisation that also are women of Xero and tech sisters, ERG groups, they've hosted a range of events and initiatives for all Xeros to participate in, ranging from these incredible guest speakers to providing educational opportunities to understand more about gender equality and its impact. And I also love that during this time, we also profile so many of our female Xero customers and partners who own and run amazing businesses. And I think providing the opportunity to profile so many wonderful women, it's really important. And it's something that we can do to elevate and amplify women within the workplace. And so, I love that. So, I'm really excited about what we have planned for International Women's Day this year. And, look, I think it's one of those things International Women's Day should be every day. I 100% agree with that. So, it's taking on putting the spotlight on these women on this day, but also continuing that over the course of the year as well.

Erin: Definitely.

And the final question, which is how we finish every episode of Hire Potential with Indeed is, what will it ultimately take to ensure a better and more inclusive workplace in the future?

Kasey: Okay, well, I think for everyone to expect and demand inclusivity, if we sit down and just accept things the way they are, we're never going to see the change and we need to be the change. I think we're in a highly competitive talent market. We've had an incredibly difficult two years with COVID, with more people assessing the way that they live their lives. And workplaces will, and they already are responding to this, and they can't afford to not listen and to not make the changes.

And I think that now, a few years ago, you might have someone within an interview ask an organisation, “Tell me about your approach to diversity and inclusion.” But you would only have a few. Now, we're seeing that more and more. So, I would really encourage people, if you're applying for a role, ask the question, ask the questions that are important to you. It's important, it's part of your career and it's part of your development. If you're within an organisation, and you're keen to hear more, if you have a diversity and inclusion team, I'm speaking for all the D&I professionals out here, but outdoor generally is always open, if you don't, and it's a smaller organisation, or you don't have one in place yet, reach out to one of your HR representatives or one of your leaders and talk about what is happening. If we have more people talking about this, we are going to see change.

Erin: That is probably the best piece of advice you can give in this situation. Thank you so much for being on the podcast with us. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. I've learned a lot and I think you gave really great tips.

Kasey: Oh, no, thank you so much for having me. It was lovely to discuss it. It's a favourite topic of mine, and I'm really excited to see what the future holds.

Conclusion 

Erin: Thank you for listening to Hire Potential with Indeed. Before you go and start building a better workplace, don't forget to hit subscribe, and leave a review if you found this podcast helpful. If you'd like to read our full D&I report, click the link in this episode's description to fill out the form. 

Just a quick note, the views and opinions expressed in this episode by the guests do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Indeed. Additionally, the information in this episode does not and is not intended to constitute legal advice. Instead, all content we discuss is for general informational purposes only and you should consult with a legal professional for any legal issues you may be experiencing.

The data in this podcast references Indeed’s 2021 D&I report. 

Sources: Indeed is the world's #1 job site according to Comscore, Total Visits, March 2021.

Sources: Over 250 million unique visitors every month, Google Analytics, Unique Visitors, February 2020.

Sources: The research in the report referenced in this episode was commissioned by ThatComms Co on behalf of Indeed and conducted by YouGov. The study was conducted online between 11 - 17 February 2021, involving 2,060 working age Australians (aged between 18-64) currently in either full or part-time employment, or actively looking for work