How To Be A True Ally At Work

Welcome to Hire Potential with Indeed, a series of fireside chats with experts in diversity and inclusion, employer branding, recruiting, HR and more.

In this episode, we’re joined by Katie Wyatt, Diversity & Inclusion Manager, Coles to discuss why it’s important to be a true ally, both in the workplace and outside of it. As an ally, you are regularly taking action to support a marginalised group you are not a part of. However, it’s important to remember that allies should be there to support and not lead the group, and knowing when to step back and listen is a crucial part of being an ally. 

True allies in the workplace can make a significant difference in helping everyone, regardless of their race, gender, beliefs, or sexuality, feel welcomed, supported, and confident to be their true selves at work. Creating a workplace where allyship is not only talked about, but visibly seen every single day is one step closer to creating a truly diverse and inclusive organisation.

Listen Now

---

Prologue

Erin: Welcome to Hire Potential with Indeed. A welcoming workplace is built from the ground up with attention to diversity, inclusion, accessibility and openness. But the way many leaders and companies approach this is full of gray areas, uncertainty and quite often, fear. Hire Potential with Indeed is here to demystify the process through the most powerful channel possible, conversations, groundbreaking ones, too. 

I'm your host, Erin Waddell, strategic insights consultant and D&I evangelist in Australia for Indeed. I've worked in the recruitment industry in Australia for the last seven years and have been in Australia for 10 years. 

In this podcast series will tackle the issues we face in the modern workplace, from diversity and inclusion to remote working, accessibility, fair hiring practices and more. This podcast is an initiative of indeed.com, the world's number one job site with over 250 million unique visitors every month from over 60 different countries. 

Introduction

Erin: Before we dive in, I wish to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land in which we are meeting today and to any Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islanders who may be listening. I pay my respects to their elders, past, present and emerging.

In today's episode, we'll be discussing how to be a true ally at work. The Black Lives Matter and Me Too movements have challenged people in traditional positions of power to personally step up and take responsibility for making organisations more fair and inclusive. That means playing a truly active role and helping marginalised employees and job seekers advance at their organisation. To do this, it's important to be a true ally, both in the workplace and outside of it. As an ally, you are regularly taking action to support a marginalised group you are not a part of. However, it's important to remember that allies should be there to support and not lead the group. And knowing when to step back and listen is a crucial part of being an ally. 

True allies in the workplace can make a significant difference in helping everyone regardless of their race, gender, beliefs or sexuality feel welcomed, supported and confident to be their true selves at work. Creating a workplace for ally ship is not only talked about, but visibly seen every single day, moves a company one step closer to creating a truly diverse and inclusive organisation. 

Today we are joined by Katie Wyatt, Diversity and Inclusion Manager at Coles to learn more about why it's important to be an ally at work, and how organisations can create a space where employees can support and help each other every day. Welcome, Katie.

Katie: Thanks, Erin. Great to be here.

Erin: We're so happy to have you. 

Could you share with us a little bit about your role at Coles?

Katie: Absolutely. I lead the diversity and inclusion portfolio at Coles which is focused on building inclusion and belonging for our workforce, which is just over 120,000 team members, which is quite a lot. At Coles we’re really focusing on having a strong desire to not just reflect the communities in which we operate, which we absolutely feel is the right thing to do, but also to celebrate difference and to really take advantage of the benefits that we know that having diversity at the table can bring. We have five areas of focus in our D&I strategy. So, accessibility being one, LGBTQI+ inclusion is another, gender equity, Indigenous engagement and then belonging is really our underpinning pillar that we know is the ultimate outcome of the work we do. So, my role in all of that involves mainly working with our senior leaders to really steward those strategies and the policies and the plans that have equity and inclusion outcomes for our people at the heart of them.

Erin: 120,000 people, that is quite the workforce. You are in almost every town in the country, it's pretty exceptional. And you are a little bit different than a lot of corporate companies out there because you have both offices where people work, but then you have the stores and the warehouses. So, you're looking at actually quite a difference in workplaces and spaces instead of worrying about just one office. 

And so, does that factor in quite heavily to your strategies for D&I as well?

Katie: Absolutely. I think a lot of businesses and corporates would just take for granted even the ability to communicate with their team. The majority of our workforce who are in the stores and the sites don't even have an email address for Coles. So, when you’re thinking about how you get their attention when a lot of them are teenagers clocking in for a casual shift for three hours, not necessarily a break in that time, it's really a challenge to think about how do you engage them when you can't rely on the tools that I think in the corporate world we've come to know so well.

Erin: They're not on Zoom like a lot of us are all day, they are face to face.

Katie: Lucky them. 

Erin: Yeah, I know, lucky them. And then you have people like the truck drivers and the warehouse workers, who, it's the same thing, while there, they're not probably on the meetings that we are on and things like that, it's probably the same challenge to make sure that you're engaging them and making them feel supported, and that they can also be a part of those initiatives. 

What does it mean to be an ally in the workplace? 

Can you share with us how Coles defines the role of an ally in the workplace?

Katie: Absolutely. I mean, allyship is such an important part of our diversity and inclusion strategy. And for us, being an ally, that means you might not be part of an underrepresented group or a disadvantaged group, but you really take on that role in supporting that group and championing their cause. And I think it's really important not to see that as a savior role because it's not about that group victimising them at all, or seeing them in the role of victim, it's really to recognise your own power and privilege in relation to that group and use that to support and amplify the needs of that group. I mean, we tend to talk still about allies to a particular community, like allies to the disability community or the LGBTQI+ community, but I definitely see this evolving over time to really educate people around just being an ally for inclusion, full stop. And then if you want to deep dive and learn more about particular groups, you can but that's where we're aiming for.

Erin: Yep, I think you're right, there is no diversity and inclusion without that allyship piece, that's so important. And to make sure that allies know how they can support their friends, their family members, their co workers.

Could you highlight a few roles that allies can choose to play to support colleagues from underrepresented groups in some beneficial ways?

Katie: Yeah, sure. I mean, for me, being an ally, can feel a bit like a journey or a bit of a spectrum at times. So, if you're still building your confidence in demonstrating ally ship, maybe you're still learning a bit about the group or disadvantaged groups, full stop, I think the most important thing you can do as an ally is to educate yourself and do the reading and do the listening and do that reflecting pace. And if your workplace provides awareness training, that in areas of diversity, absolutely do it. If they don't, there's so much around on the internet that's available, there's no excuse for not educating yourself, basically. 

I mean, it calls we regularly provide pride awareness and ally training. And that's incredibly popular. And I think it really speaks to the fact that most people do want to be allies, but they need a bit of the showing of how to do it, how to show up, how to be a good ally, so that we can build that confidence and practice. And I think as you move further along that spectrum, it's really about, well, how can you take your own education into those visible signs of support. So, do you wear a rainbow sticker or a flag pin that shows your support for a particular group? Do you take part in celebrations for days of significance? All of those things are about showing up and saying, “Hey, I want to learn, I want to support you.” And then I think what we're aiming for, the gold standard of ally ship is really where you become an active ally. 

So, really interrogating yourself as to what you can do to progress and amplify the needs of a disadvantaged group or underrepresented group and standing up and speaking up and not speaking over or taking away those speaking opportunities from the group itself, but actually really looking at ways you can play a role, whether it's in an employee resource group or taking a stand around diversity when you're invited to be on a panel, and most importantly, not being a bystander. If you see behavior that is discriminatory or disrespectful, that you actually don't just let it pass you by, you do something. And that's, I think, the hardest thing for everyone, because we're all a little bit afraid of saying the wrong thing or offending. But that's where the power of allyship, I think, really comes to the full.

How to navigate offensive comments or microaggressions that are passed off as ‘jokes’

Erin: You just touched on so many fantastic things there. One of the last things you touched on is how allies can help navigate those offensive comments or microaggressions that are made in the workplace, but they're passed off as a joke, or, “Oh, I'm just being a mate.”

Why is it important to say something when, and I'm using quotation marks here, ‘a joke’ is made like this in the work environment?

Katie: I think because the word you used was microaggressions. And I think that that is absolutely what we need to remember, is what might feel like just a harmless joke to one person. The research tells us that those small acts of discrimination are just as damaging to the person on the receiving end, as a really significant act. It's a bit like, if you make a joke to the woman that's getting up to leave about, “Oh, you're leaving early because of the kids working a half day, are you?” Which someone might think, ‘Oh, that’s a harmless joke, I don't mean anything by it” the research shows that that is as damaging as a really overt act of sexual harassment for that woman or can be. So, I think that that's why we have to take those opportunities to say, “No, actually, that's not okay. That's not the way we talk about people here.”

Erin: On the topic of microaggressions, is that meetings can really be a hotspot for them, especially for underrepresented groups. So, things like being interrupted while speaking, having ideas hijacked or just immediately dismissed or just blatantly being completely ignored. 

And so, I know we've talked about this a little bit already, but could you share an example of an everyday action someone can take to make sure that the meetings they are a part of, maybe they're leading the meetings, maybe they're just attending, are more inclusive?

Katie: Yeah, for sure. And I think this is a really interesting topic in this age of COVID, where so many of us have flipped to a remote working model, and or at the hybrid working model, and a lot of the meetings we’re on now, are online, and you see a bit of, rhetoric, actually about that making meetings more inclusive, because you've suddenly equalised people's power or ability to speak in the room. I think that those existing power dynamics tend to still translate over to the virtual world. So, I don't think saying oh well we’re all equal on a video call, I don't think that's enough. I think we need to be really conscious all the time of what we can do. 

And I think, as well, it often depends on the role that you're playing in the meeting, right? If you're leading or facilitating that meeting, the things you'll be doing will be different to somebody who's listening or participating. So, I think as a facilitator or leader of meetings, there's really important things that I'm saying facilitators build really strong muscle with these days around making sure that equal voices are heard and throwing to people that you haven't heard from, or not just asking for a quick, “Tell me your ideas on X.” But actually asking people, “Let's take two minutes to write down our ideas, and then we'll share” so that even the people that don't throw things out instantly have an opportunity to reflect and contribute. 

And I think for senior people in the room, and this can often be a hard one, it's about not being the first voice. I think that if you're in a room and a lot of your direct reports or people who are junior to you in the hierarchy are there, if you speak first, the conversation’s going to follow you, people are going to support what you've said most likely. So, I think strong leaders really need to let others speak first and then share their view. And I think for participants who may not feel like they have so much control over the meeting, it's really thinking about--, seeing how others are responding, it's turning on your video if you're on an online meeting, it's giving that attention and mindfulness to everyone. And I think calling people in who you say are not speaking up or may be a little quieter or you think may have been unintended to be excluded at some point, it’s how do you call them in and lead inclusively in your own way.

54% of workers who don't feel that they are a part of a diverse workforce don't feel comfortable to speak openly at work

Erin: Yeah, I think especially when it comes to the person facilitating the meeting, it's if you don't know the people in the room, there are some really great tactics that you mentioned that they can use to make sure everyone feels included. And I think the biggest one for myself and for some of the other facilitators I know is utilising, especially if you're on Zoom, is utilising the chat box and making sure everyone knows that you don't have to, if you're uncomfortable speaking in front of a large group of people, you can go ahead and write in the chat box whatever you want, and I'm happy to read it out on your behalf. 

I think it's just little things like this, that helped make sure that everyone's getting a fair go and a fair chance to speak their mind. And that can be an issue as well, especially when it comes to allyship, especially when it comes to standing up for underrepresented groups, it's really important to create a space, whether that's a meeting, whether it's an office, whether it's virtually, where all voices are heard without fear of retribution or fear of anything happening to them once they speak up. And Indeed did a recent diversity and inclusion report in Australia. And we found that 54% of workers who don't feel that they are a part of a diverse workforce don't actually feel comfortable to speak their mind openly. 

Are there any words of advice that you would give to the allies out there on how to navigate that fear?

Katie: Look, I think we would all recognise moments where we have felt that fear. I do think wanting to really be an ally in those moments, it's being aware of that. And I think all of those tips that you shared about when you're facilitating how you use the different tools at your disposal, I think the way you frame a conversation, so all of the setup you do, we have a practice at Coles within our people and culture community where we encourage leaders to talk at the beginning of a meeting about, “These are the inclusive practices that we're all going to practice in the meeting today.” And we speak to it specifically as being, “We want to run an inclusive meeting, so this is what we're asking everyone to do in order to facilitate that.” And I think that's where you lay the ground rules, and you really set that tone. So, I think allies can take on those types of things as well, for sure.

Erin: That's great. That's great that you’ve set those guidelines out at the beginning. I think that's a really fantastic practice that you can probably easily roll out across every different type of team you have. That's wonderful.

Katie: Absolutely, yeah. It is those simple things that you think, “Well, how do I become a more inclusive leader? I need to change everything about myself.” But actually, it's small things that you practice daily that will make real change.

Erin: And that's accessibility, isn't it? If you make it accessible for everyone, everyone benefits, people that don't even need it to be accessible will still benefit because maybe they're having a day where they don't want to speak up, but they have a great idea. I love that. That's wonderful. 

And with diversity and inclusion, especially in the past few years, I would say, diversity and inclusion has moved to the top of most organisations to-do lists. However, in addition to a top down approach, it's really critical to make sure that there is a grassroots initiative as well. Can you explain why this is important?

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for us at Coles, we really started with that top down and I think absolutely diversity and inclusion needs to be leader-lead, it needs to have all of the metrics scorecards, targets, strategies in place. But absolutely, if you don't have that bottom up movement of people who really want to come together, either as members of a diverse community or their allies to really drive how things feel at the local level, and we think a lot about that given the size and scale of Coles. Because what I do in the store Support Centre in Turanga, Melbourne, how does that translate to somebody working in a supermarket in Western Australia. The gap is too big. 

So, we use employee resource groups or team member networks as we refer to them at Coles to really be driving that inclusion at the local level. Because I think we can all relate to that fact that how you feel in the workplace is actually often more a product of the person you work for, the people you work with and the work you're doing. So, if we can influence at that local level, then we're really impacting that sense of belonging and sense of inclusion.

Tipis for setting up an Employee Resource Group 

Erin: I agree with you, Employee Resource Groups are a fantastic way to create a safe space for underrepresented groups, while giving allies a place to learn and get involved. At Indeed, we have multiple employee inclusion groups, we call them inclusion resource groups, so IRGs. But some companies call them Business Resource Groups, you have team member networks, and we have these in every country that we are, in every office that we are in. And even at the moment, while we're not in offices, they're still active for anyone, wherever they're working to join. And I'm actually the leader of the Access Indeed Employee Resource Group, which is the visible and invisible disabilities group. And I really love when people that might not identify as a part of that underrepresented group joins, because I think it is important if you are an ally to learn about a group that you can help or a group that you can better represent as an ally. 

And so, I would love to ask you, what your advice would be for how a company could go about setting up an employee resource group to best serve their marginalised employees?

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we've launched three in the last 12 months. And we've done every single one of them quite differently. So, I think the first thing I would say is, there's no right or wrong answer to how to go about it. But I think what is important to think about is the principles that are more likely to lead to a successful group. So, the first thing you obviously need to be thinking about is where the people are coming from, and do you want people to volunteer, or do you want to tap people on the shoulder and ask them to be part of it. 

And we've tended to do a combination of both, thinking about we absolutely want the people that want to put their hands up. But also knowing that we'll, starting a network from scratch, we are often thinking about, ‘Well, who do we know in that community who is really well connected, good at bringing people together, that we want to absolutely use that power for the group?” So, I think that can be a really nice combo.

Then I think it's really about the group coming to an agreement on their charter or their terms of reference, however you want to define that, and the purpose. And I always say that ours, when you're setting your plan, because obviously, the work plan is important, is not to try and do too many things. Because this is a volunteer role, you have a day job, just think about the three things that you want to do this year that will make you feel like you've had an impact. And it really focuses the mind, I think. 

The other really important part, I believe, is having that connection to the senior leaders. So, we like to have at least General Manager level at Coles, which is the level below our executive leadership team, sponsoring every network and those general managers also sit on our diversity steering committees. So, we have a two way conversation then, we've got the voice of the people represented in the steering committee who control the budgets and are driving the strategy, and vice versa. And that works really well for us. I think without leaders backing these groups and being the truest version of an ally, the groups will not thrive. 

And the final thing that I think everyone tackles a little bit differently but is around recognition and development and sustainability because people doing these roles. They are volunteer, as I mentioned, unless you're in a company where they're paid, which I've noticed a couple of companies are starting to actually attach a financial reward to people doing those roles, but they can burn you out. It's not just not only am I living the experience of being in a minority or disadvantaged group, but I'm actually having to coach and support other people who are also living that experience. And that can be extraordinarily tiring, demoralising, lots of things. So, it's really important to take care of those people. 

Our approach is we’re quite excited. We're developing custom development programs to support our network leaders, to give them the coaching and the development they've told us they want. So, how to be advocates, how to not just advocate for yourself, but to advocate for others, because we see them as the future talent at Coles. We want more diverse people in our leadership population, this is where we're going to find them. So, it's important to think about those things as well.

Erin: I, again, agree with you on all of those points that you mentioned. 

And one of the ones that I just wanted to expand on really quickly is the senior leaders. I know that there's the old adage ‘lead by example.’ But in your opinion, why is it important for senior leaders to be visible allies in the workplace? And what can that visibility actually look like?

Katie: Yeah, look, I think any person that is coming up in an organisation needs to see people above them that either look like them or are supportive of them. So, if you're then in a group that is underrepresented, that need is even stronger, because it's actually so much harder for you to find those visible role models. So, I think the reason senior leaders need to be at these tables is firstly to role model what good allyship looks like, but also to demonstrate it, actually move barriers out of the way, make decisions, give money and resource to those groups to actually do things and show their own willingness to build their knowledge. And I think that sets a tone for all of their peers at the leadership level that that is the type of company you want to be and that's critical. Otherwise I think I wouldn't want to be in an employee resource group that didn't have leaders support, because it would just feel like we're just looking at each other and knowing there's things that need to change, but there's no one who is actually in the room that can change them.

Erin: Yes, I think that that's that influence as well, right? They're an influencer. And they're influencing the employees to feel that it like it is okay. It is okay to speak up against behavior that is not inclusive. It is okay to stick your hand up or to express your opinions without fear of retribution. 

What are some resources that Australian companies can access to better implement lasting allyship into their workplace policies?

Katie: There is so much out there. I mean, I lean on those partnerships like pride in diversity in the LGBTQI+ space, Australia network on disability for disability awareness and inclusion. I think Diversity Council Australia is fantastic as a starting point resource for all types of diversity and inclusion. There's just so much out there. And I think if people are starting at that, I want to learn more stage, there's just brilliant stuff out there now and not just necessarily training courses, but look at the TV we're producing. I mean, ABC has produced, I don't even know how many series, of the You Can Ask That. And so many of those focusing on diversity areas and all the unsayable things, go and watch those, educate yourself. I mean, there's some amazing documentaries on your Netflix's and other streaming services about all different aspects of diversity and history. And I think there's just no excuse for not being able to educate ourselves. And for organisations, it's really about leaning into what they can take from the market. And if there's budget, do you need help on that journey. But, again, I'm turning around and listening to your people and your diverse people at what they need and want in your organisational context.

Erin: It's been a fantastic thing to be able to see the amount of resources that are publicly available that are interesting and not a dry documentary. It's something interesting. It can be fun. And that's something that I think has changed a lot since I was younger, since I was a kid, especially as a disabled person, I was born without my left arm. And so, I wear a robotic prosthetic. And it's pretty cool. But I've seen a lot of shows or things on TV where there's someone just like me where they're on the screen, and that's not something I ever saw growing up. And that's the same for a lot of people in minority groups. That is something wonderful that I think has changed recently. 

What will it ultimately take to ensure a better and more inclusive workplace in the future

But the final question I have for you, which is how we finish every episode with Hire Potential with Indeed, is, what do you think it will ultimately take to ensure a better and more inclusive workplace in the future?

Katie: My answer here might be slightly unexpected. But I think the human optimist in me wants to say it’s empathy and doing the work, because I do like to believe that most of us have the good intentions behind what we do, and we want to do the right thing. But the commercial business person inside me probably has a different answer to that. And very recently Coles announced a sustainability linked loan, which prior to us doing one, I didn't know what they were. But it essentially means that if we achieved certain diversity targets, we will get a discount on the cost of borrowing money, and lots of money. If we don't achieve them, we pay more for that money. 

And for me, what I realised in terms of all of the different parts of the business that come together to make a deal like that, it was the true story of how do we--, we are betting money on diversity outcomes. We believe so much in what we're doing and the plans we've got in place and the strategies we’re going after that we will put money on the table and put that at risk. And I think that's where we get the capitalists, right, is seeing that true business imperative to creating inclusion outcomes. So, I think that is a really important part of the argument because we can't just keep preaching to the converted, we have to convince everyone else as well.

Erin: Yep, got to get out of those echo chambers. And that can be hard. It can be really hard and scary to try to chart new territory with people that you're not sure if they want to hear it. But you have a pretty compelling case there. Katie, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much for joining us here on our podcast. And I hope that these tips are actionable for the people that have listened because I think that they are absolutely wonderful. And thank you so much for all of the work that you do in the diversity and inclusion space, Coles is very lucky to have you.

Katie: Thank you so much for having me, Erin, it's been an absolute pleasure.

Conclusion 

Erin: Thank you for listening to Hire Potential with Indeed. Before you go and start building a better workplace, don't forget to hit subscribe, and leave a review if you found this podcast helpful. If you'd like to read our full D&I report, click the link in this episode's description to fill out the form. 

Just a quick note, the views and opinions expressed in this episode by the guests do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Indeed. Additionally, the information in this episode does not and is not intended to constitute legal advice. Instead, all content we discuss is for general informational purposes only and you should consult with a legal professional for any legal issues you may be experiencing.

The data in this podcast references Indeed’s 2021 D&I report. 

---

Sources: Indeed is the world's #1 job site according to Comscore, Total Visits, March 2021.

Sources: Over 250 million unique visitors every month, Google Analytics, Unique Visitors, February 2020.

Sources: The research in the report referenced in this episode was commissioned by ThatComms Co on behalf of Indeed and conducted by YouGov. The study was conducted online between 11 - 17 February 2021, involving 2,060 working age Australians (aged between 18-64) currently in either full or part-time employment, or actively looking for work